Individual Room Control ELV the MAX!

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Individual Room Control ELV the MAX!

Postby blb » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:05 am

Hi all,

I guess this should be placed in the topic domoticaforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f=16& ... mp;start=0, but that topic is locked.

I have found a new solution on the ELV website from the supplier eQ3 which looks very interesting to me. Some of the eQ3 equipment is available at Conrad, but this MAX! product set not (yet).

A LAN Gateway (new equipment) communicates with the radiator thermostats and offers access via the network / internet.

radiator thermostat: elv.de/MAX!-Heizkouml;rperthermostat/x. ... ch_/marke_
LAN Gateway: elv.de/MAX!-Cube-LAN-Gateway/x.aspx/cid ... ch_/marke_
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Noel » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Now this looks very promising!
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Bwired » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:37 pm

Looks good, what would all the funtions over the Lan control be?
There are more products for Max
http://www.elv.de/MAX!-Funk-Heizungsreg ... tail2_1872
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby blb » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:54 pm

Bwired wrote:Looks good, what would all the funtions over the Lan control be?


From the Manual: "With an existing Internet connection, there are various ways of controlling the system. The MAX! Cube can be accessed using a browser via the Internet portal, using a smartphone application and with the local software. Configuration settings for all terminals are made via the user-friendly MAX! Software. Different settings can be made for individual rooms. Settings (e.g. weekly profiles) are transmitted to the MAX! Radiator Thermostats in the system (so these also function independently without the MAX! Cube)."
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Bwired » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:45 pm

Dont like the portal stuff, but i think is a good hackable candidate :)
Thinking about ordering some tryouts.
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Jeroen Bartels » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:30 pm

I'm interested too.
Not too expensive. So if it can be controlled by homeseer I will buy some.
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Digit » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:26 am

I have some 2nd thoughts with all that portal stuff too.
I don´t need/want that and I wonder if everything will still work if you deny Internet access to the product.
For the rest, it looks promising: Ethernet enabled, full temperature range can be set, battery life, feature set.
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby Noel » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:29 pm

JayBee wrote:I'm interested too.
Not too expensive. So if it can be controlled by homeseer I will buy some.

Let me know if so.. We can order them all in one go :-)
Last edited by Noel on Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Individual Room Control

Postby jrkalf » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:21 pm

The MAX! stuff looks nice and a fair bit cheaper then the FHT track I went into. Although it looks that max isn't as widely adjustable as the FHT stuff. I'm implementing FHT by ELV. (If you're interested in reading up on the FHT part, look a few forums up in the FS20/FHT forums)

They both seem to work on the same 868,3Mhz band.

About the MAX! internet requirements. I've read a bit of the gateway documentation. It doesn't require internet in order to work properly on a lan based connection. According to the documentation a internet connection is required to use the MAX! Portal combined with a smartphone or notebook. I'm interpreting this in a sense that the smartphone or notebook aren't LAN connected and they'll use the external internet access to gain connection to the MAX! Portal.


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Re: Individual Room Control ELV the Max

Postby Digit » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:37 pm

Hi Jelle,

The docs I read are a bit "blurry" to me, in a way that I will only know if "without Portal" will work is when I see it for myself
It's all commercial talk... commercial = blurry ;-)

And what do you mean with "isn't as widely adjustable as the FHT stuff"?
I think you mean that FHT has features MAX! doesn't have; which?
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Re: Individual Room Control ELV the MAX

Postby Fantic » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:30 pm

This page reads:
Bedienung und Konfiguration im Browser mittels HTML und Rich-Internet-Applikation für hohen Bedienkomfort.
Die lokale Nutzung der Software auf PC bzw. Laptop ist auch ohne Internetverbindung oder Zugriff auf das Portal möglich.

So the second line says you can still use it fine without access to the portal, next to that the client software will allow you to also use Android and iPhone app's in your own network. The additional functionality of the portal should be the more secure access and the ease of use without hacking home routers and using DynDNS and others adding encrypted access though the portal to your gateway.
Regards, Maarten.
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Ordering the MAX

Postby Verkenner » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:04 am

Interesting product !
Thinking about ordering some.

Perhaps a forum discountcode is possible.
Somebody tried already?

Rgrds, Verkenner
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Re: Individual Room Control ELV the MAX

Postby Noel » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:08 am

Maybe we should all chip in some cash, and get a developer here to code a plugin for it?
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Re: Individual Room Control ELV the Max

Postby jrkalf » Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:22 am

Digit wrote:Hi Jelle,

The docs I read are a bit "blurry" to me, in a way that I will only know if "without Portal" will work is when I see it for myself
It's all commercial talk... commercial = blurry ;-)

And what do you mean with "isn't as widely adjustable as the FHT stuff"?
I think you mean that FHT has features MAX! doesn't have; which?


Yeah, I'm missing the KEY feature you need to make it a good product: a device that switches on/off your central heating system.
Overview of MAX! devices on sale: elv.de/MAX!-Funk-Heizungsregler-System/ ... tail2_1872

It's got a room on/off switch, a lan gateway, a radiator valve and a window sensor.

So the radiator valve is a smart system keeping track of the temperature and is coupled with a windows sensor and a room switch. So you can:
1. manually switch off the valve when you leave the room. (or turn it on on entering)
2. it'll get triggered by a window sensor, preventing the valve to be opened when a window is open.
3. only opens up when the temperature setting indicated additional heating is required.
But there's no link to turn your central heating system on / off.

the extra part of FHT
This is the part where the FHT system excels in. It's also linked to a device that controls your central heating. This device works both on district/city heating and or regular central heaters. And this is where you save your money. Controlling the device that burns all the energy and money.

So MAX! might be a viable system, but I'm sceptical about it's advantages in a situation where it's dependent on central heating devices. I see it being a viable alternative for central building heating (flats/appartments) or district heating where there is no on/off switch to cut off the flow of heating into your house and you only have control of the heating through the radiator valves.

about my case
In my personal case, I have district heating as well. But I have a honeywell flow-valve mounted on the primary lead into the house. That way I have control at the source of the energy cost. I have a FHT80b (thermostat) in every room. The radiators have FHT8v (radiator valves) on them and the windows are mounted with FHT80TF (open/close sensors). The honeywell flow valve is connected to a FHT8w, which has the basic function a regular thermostat has, except for the temperature measurements. It only connects the blue/red wires when required. This requirement is send by the individual FHT80b devices. So each room has the power to individually turn on / off the honeywell valve allowing heating to flow into the house.

District heating works in a star-network rather then a RING circulation network the normal central heating works. To show an example, here's a picture:
Image
(Forget about the circulation pump part, that's a long term idea). As you can see, each radiator has it's individual pipe for the upstream of hot water and off stream for cold water. So when a radiator is shut-off, no heating is lost because there is no flow from the source to that specific radiator.

FHT and Interpret
The FHT system can be couple with a lan/internet gateway as well. Either through the ELV supplied FHZpc hardware and software solution. Or by a open source initiative which the majority of FS20/FHT users on this forums seem to embrace. It's a device called CUL or CUNO made by Busware. Software for it is made by various initiatives amongst them FHEM. And there are rumors flying by a dutch developer of a dutch domotics program got a development cuno as well.. but those haven't been officially verified.
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem!

Fibaro HC2, various z-wave switching, alerting, detection modules.
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Re: Individual Room Control ELV the Max

Postby KidE » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:19 am

jrkalf wrote:the extra part of FHT
This is the part where the FHT system excels in. It's also linked to a device that controls your central heating. This device works both on district/city heating and or regular central heaters. And this is where you save your money. Controlling the device that burns all the energy and money.


And this is where you hit the hammer on the nail. Traditionl German systems have a running system which has a different setup than ours (as i see with my parents in law).
In the systems i saw the pumps where running continuously and only the valves where operated to get more/less heat. Switching a boiler/burner/pump on/off is a standard feature with this system which gives it a big advantage. This system can be converted easily to accommodate city heating as well as other systems.

Also the big difference between FHT and MAX is that the parts of the FHT like the actuator can be controller like a normal FS20 device and can interact with temperature sensors via any piece of HA software. Not that the MAX wouldn't but the standard possibilities the FHT's give are superiour.
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