Quinta 65

This Forum is about the Opentherm gateway (OTGW) from Schelte

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hvxl
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Re: Quinta 65

Post by hvxl »

I originally just made the OTGW for myself. I spend time and money to make it available to others and try to help them as best as I can. Most people appreciate that, but all you can do is complain. And you're wrong about most of your claims too.

The OTGW does not attempt to emulate a thermostat of a given brand. Of course it could, but that should not be necessary with boilers that follow the opentherm specification correctly. So that has never been a design goal.

The equipment matrix does record which thermostat, if any, was connected when the data was received. If you select a boiler and then click "Show details", the information of the last 10 log files that were uploaded for that boiler is shown. Each column has a header that shows the date and time the log was uploaded. If you hover the mouse over that header, a pop-up message shows the thermostat used. Granted, this may not be very obvious. I didn't point it out on the site because this information isn't usually terribly useful.

Having an OTGW with just a boiler and no thermostat works fine for everyone but you. Why it doesn't work for you is still unclear. So maybe you should not assign blame until that has been figured out. You have verified that the OTGW works with another boiler. For all I know, you may just have connected or configured your Quinta 65 incorrectly. But because of your refusal to do some simple measurements, we don't know.

Diagnostic test #5 dates back to at least 2013, as can be found on the internet archive. So no, that was not based on your suggestion of a few months ago.

The Nodo shop makes the hardware for the OTGW available at pretty much material cost. They definitely do not charge a commercial price. If you want to know what that would be, take a look at this web shop. And I seriously doubt you would get any better support there. At least the video they link to in their description shows that they don't have a deep understanding of the device.

I agree that the linux kernel is better than the Windows kernel. But the linux kernel is developed by over 15000 developers (2017 figure). You can not really compare that to a project that I basically develop on my own. I have one boiler and 3 thermostats. Especially boilers are expensive. It is unreasonable to expect me to be able to test against a large variety of equipment. The web site clearly mentions which boiler and thermostat I use. By the time there are 15000 OTGW developers, you may expect the majority of boilers and thermostats to be verified.

Figuring out the reference voltage only needs to be done once. I would have had to sacrifice a lot of resources to do this automatically in the main firmware and properly handle all eventualities, like the thermostat or boiler not yet being connected. It made more sense to me to provide a simple way to update the firmware and put the things that would rarely be needed in a separate piece of firmware. That leaves resources available for more frequently used functionality. Plus, in most cases the default value just works.

Sure, I could have put a much more powerful processor in the OTGW and made a very fancy dynamic plug-in based system. But that would have made the device more expensive, bigger, and use more power. The development of such a system would also have taken much longer. The choices I have made to come to the current implementation seem to be sufficient for the vast majority of people using the OTGW. So far, you are the only exception.

The only thing you have achieved with your pompous attitude is that I am no longer willing to spend any more time trying to help you. So good luck. I hope you figure it out.
Schelte
old_fart
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Re: Quinta 65

Post by old_fart »

But because of your refusal to do some simple measurements, we don't know.
I tried to get this to work with my older brother and he is mostly pissed that it's not working.
Most people appreciate that, but all you can do is complain.
Spending money on hardware and time on the ecosystem is already a form of appreciation.

I can't thank you for something that thusfar has only costed me time, right? I can thank you for your effort, which I have no issue doing. I have basically been saying that the quality of this work is too low for wider consumption. You can interpret that as complaining, but I am just the messenger. Determining the voltage level could even easily be done inside OTMonitor.exe with the existing firmware.

The OTGW does not attempt to emulate a thermostat of a given brand.
I never claimed that it did.

I did connect another thermostat (https://www.hornbach.nl/p/honeywell-kam ... 8/6667494/) (one that should work according to the matrix and various people on the Internet), but changing the temperature via the physical rotation interface does _not_ have any effect on an InterGas boiler with the OTGW in the middle connected to it. I am able to display commands, but the device is not acting as a gateway.

Literally, the only thing that seems to work is setting the setpoint (e.g. to 80 degrees). Obviously, I did check whether the remote set point override was active, etc.

In short, from my perspective the Nodoshop device simply doesn't work.

I don't understand why you are so emotional about it.

If you want to have money to fix it, that's fine. We can probably arrange that.
The equipment matrix does record which thermostat, if any, was connected when the data was received. If you select a boiler and then click "Show details", the information of the last 10 log files that were uploaded for that boiler is shown. Each column has a header that shows the date and time the log was uploaded. If you hover the mouse over that header, a pop-up message shows the thermostat used. Granted, this may not be very obvious. I didn't point it out on the site because this information isn't usually terribly useful.
Have you read the HHGTTG? Perhaps you want to consult the section where they announced the destruction of planet Earth. Do you really not get that the way you present the data could not be done in a more awful way? I don't care that you suck at web development (or didn't spend enough time on it), but don't act as if it is reasonable that everyone becomes an expert on your _terrible_ presentation of data.

With the Intergas Boiler I tried various voltage settings as well.

An OEM fault code of 255 was also displayed in the case of the Intergas Boiler, but I don't seem to have a manual explaining what that means.

Code: Select all

So maybe you should not assign blame until that has been figured out.
I have 25 years of experience programming systems. If I can't get it to work, generally nobody can. Now, this also involves electronics, but I never set out to modify the firmware of the device (and, FYI, I have written firmware too for commercial purposes). Either it works, or it doesn't. All I can see is that it does not work and there are no error messages. For example, I would expect any kind of decent firmware to check that if someone sets a thermostat to 30 degrees that a boiler should turn on (if OpenTherm can't even determine whether there is some kind of response from a boilter, then whoever created OpenTherm was a complete idiot). So, my experience with OpenTherm thusfar has been an investment in thusfar a worthless OpenTherm Gateway, a worthless OpenTherm Thermostat, someone daring to complain about me, while they wasted my time with their project that doesn't even work. Interesting how there can be different perspectives, right? From my perspective you are someone who just invented fire and then when the other villagers ask to show it, you are like "Hey, I am still working on it". There is absolutely _nothing_ you can say to counter that.

Do you really feel great in the knowledge that we are burning through hundreds of extra euros of gas each month, just because you can't be bothered to properly support your "hobby" project?

Also, after connecting the various thermostats again without the OTGW in the middle, suddenly the Intergas boiler started to generate heat immediately. So, no there is no evil conspiracy and I am not trolling you. I am just reporting that your stuff doesn't work. I bought it preassembled from the Nodo shop to also avoid issues about "did you solder it correctly, or whatever".

I have even hooked up a Windows system for testing, which I normally never use. I have written a better terminal client to interact with it (mine automatically finds the OTGW on a network). So, no, I am not a random stupid user; the thing just doesn't work in general and is _not_ suitable for general use. If you have so much confidence in your device, you are welcome to show that it does work. For how much money can you show that it does work?
old_fart
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Re: Quinta 65

Post by old_fart »

This is everything I get out of it, but your documentation is unclear too.

For example:

Code: Select all

Boiler requires maintenance
It received its maintenance two weeks ago. Are you saying that the guy that performed the maintenance didn't actually maintain it?

Code: Select all

Remote setpoint override is active
In the status below one can see the letter O, which means the above according to you, but what that actually means is not specified anywhere. Does it say anything about the state of the OTGW or does it say anything about the boiler? I am literally only interested in modifying the state of the boiler, something which the OTGW has _never_ been able to do with a Remeha in _any_ configuration with or without a thermostat connected.

Why don't you just write down things in language that is not ambiguous?

Placing the device in monitor mode has absolutely no effect either (other than it confirming it received the command in the standard way).

Is the O in the PR also just state contained in the OTGW?

Code: Select all

00000000/00000000,0.00,00000000/00000000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0/0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,0/0,0/0,0.00,0.00,00000000/00000000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
PS: 0
PS: 0
PR: A=OpenTherm Gateway 6.1
PR: B=12:57 31-05-2022
PR: C=4 MHz
PR: W=A
PR: G=00
PR: I=11
PR: L=FXOMPC
PR: M=G
PR: Q=C
PR: S=15.00
PR: O=t20.00
PR: P=Low power
PR: D=O
PR: R=D
PR: T=11
PR: V=0
PS: 1
00000000/00000000,0.00,00000000/00000000,0.00,0.00,0.00,0/0,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0,0/0,0/0,0.00,0.00,00000000/00000000,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
PS: 0
Is there anyone that is willing to provide support for this OTGW? I think the OpenTherm "specification" is only meant for people to pretend there is an open standard, just like OOXML. Like I said, I have purchased a Honeywell OpenTherm thermostat and that one also doesn't work, even though I have three manuals clearly stating they do "OpenTherm" (the OTGW, Remeha boiler, and the Honeywell Thermostat). Even without the OTGW the Remeha Boiler doesn't work with a basic OpenTherm Honeywell Thermostat. Is there anyone on this planet that can produce a working heating system out of these broken parts?
old_fart
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Re: Quinta 65

Post by old_fart »

The documentation of the boiler was the problem. OTGW with a cheap thermostat connected works fine now.

The way it currently works is that OTGW tells the thermostat what to do and the thermostat tells the boiler what to do. Is it also possible to have the gateway tell the boiler what to do directly? I don't think I will implement that, but I am just curious. I have the impression that there needs to be some special support for that in the firmware for that to work.

Is anyone selling fully assembled OTGWs also (including the case)?
hvxl
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Re: Quinta 65

Post by hvxl »

I'm glad you figured it out. Did you have to get a different controller board or some converter? Or was it just a matter of some setting on the boiler?

There is special support in the OTGW firmware for telling the boiler what to do. See the CS and CH commands. So yes, that is possible.
Schelte
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