Reliable motion sensor system?

[JohnieBraaf]

Dear all,

As I'm relativly new to home automation and all that is involved, I'm currently busy searching for enhancments to my PLCBUS automated setup.

Therefore, I'm looking for a system to implement motion sensing capabilities (reasonably priced).

Requirements would be:

- High reliability
- Computer interfacing possibility
- Small sized, or nicely designed
- Scalability,

Of course, I did some prior research on this topic and with the help of google these are the solutions that I came accross:

1) The use of X-10 motion sensors (questionable quality, cheap for sure, and interfacing via PLCBUS)
2) ZWave motion sensors (relativly decent quality, requires seperate interface)
3) Klik-aan-Klik-uit sensors (actually, I'm not a fan of this brand, intuitivly)

Probably there will be more comparable brands producing these sensors, so my question is the following:

Is there a recommended system for motion sensing in and around the house?

Some extra information on the setting:
PLCBUS 1141G (PC interface)
PLCBUS RF receiver 4023G
PLCBUS 4808G (X-10 bridge)
HWG TM751 (RF X-10 receiver)

This setting thus should allow me to receive all possible X-10 / PLCBUS signals trough the air or the power mains.

I'm particularly interested in experiences of fellow automators regarding this subject...

Best regards,

Jan

[steve2xyz]

Hi Jan,

I use X10 (MS13) motion sensors inside my flat and I have one sheltered from the weather outside. They transmit X10 RF and to put that directly onto the power line you would need something like a TM13. I use an RFXCOM receiver to pick up the transmissions and let my system know where and when motion has been detected. The MS13 sensors also transmit a dawn/dusk indication which is useful supplementary information. I find the batteries need replacing every 18 months to two years.

I have had no reliability problems with them individually, but like lots of X10 they are rather slow. If you move through one room into a second it's quite possible for the transmitter in the second room to be jammed by the one in the previous room which is still transmitting! Generally though, they are convenient and easy to use.

Cheers, Steve

[JohnieBraaf]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for sharing your experience with these X-10 sensors. It seems like they provide a resonably reliable system as long as there are not to many devices broadcasting on the power line.

Do you think the RFXCOM provides extra advantages over the TM13 or TM751 (which I have)? I can imagine that the RFXCOM might be capable of detecting/processing concurrent signals, is that right?
As that would mean that the system would not interfere with other X-10 communication, in the sense that it goes directly from Sensor to RFXCOM into the computer (or LAN). Can you confirm that?

I'm not familiar with the way the communication with RFXCOM goes, but it would be an ideal situation to have these signals seperated and handle all RF communication via 1 central device.
The central server can subsequently process these signals and send the appropriate X-10 command through the powerline (if needed).

Thanks again,

Jan

[b_weijenberg]

Jan,

The information below is true for a Home Automation configuration. For stand-alone configurations other rules are applicable.

Using the RFXCOM RF receiver is the fastest way, why??
1 The RF protocol is much faster than the power line protocol and the command will be received faster by the HA system
2 When using a TM13 the RF signal is repeated on the slow power line and the HA system can only transmit a X10 command is no other X10 command is running on the power line.

X10 sensor => RFXCOM => HA system => power line command

X10 sensor => TM13 (with PL delay) => HA system (wait for X10 sensor completion) => power line command

Do not use HomeEasy/KAKU/NEXA/Chacon door/window or motion sensors in a HA configuration. Again, in a stand-alone configuration they work perfect but for a HA configuration they produce to much RF which delays or disturbs other RF transmit commands.
The RF lamp and appliance modules of these brands can be used and can also perfectly be controlled by the HA system when using the MS13.

Bert

[Jeroen Bartels]

I also use MS13 sensors with RFXcom for switching on lights in the house.
Some comments: As steve said some MS jam each other when walking from one room to the other. This can be avoided if you please the MS13's correctly (so they can only detect you one by one). I would also suggest that you only use the 'on' signal (transmitted every 7 seconds when detecting motion) and have HS switch of the light after not receiving the on signal for x seconds. On signals are send out every 6 seconds so if you mis one you will pick up the other. Off signals are tranmitted once so if you miss it the light does not go off.)
Switching is really fast (mostly under 0,5 seconds.)
Very pleased with this setup.
(About MS13: The US versions are very cheap. The can be converted to EU versions, check the forum how. I use the US versions with a aditional US RFXcom receiver. This way you also have less trafic on the 433 mhz band.
good luck

[JohnieBraaf]

Bert and Jay,

Thank you for your interesting vision on this matter. As I understand, the RFXCOM setup in combination with RF sensors is a reliable and fast setup.
My choice for the RFXCOM is made, which will now involve determining and acquiring the right components.

Therefore, I have some minor questions left, which are all focussed around the reliability requirement:

1) It is not completely clear to me, if the RFXCOM can receive multiple signals at the same time. Or if RF in general is capable of doing that?
I can understand that when a combination of bandwidths is used (310, 434, and 869) this shouldn't be a problem, but how about the same frequency?

2) As Jay and Steve mentioned, concurrent broadcasting may jam signals of these sensors. Does an additional RFXCOM receiver module, resolve the jamming problem?

3) In the RFXCOM section of this forum, I read this topic about channel selection. Does this also apply to these kind of sensors? And is it useful in this context?

Best regards,

Jan