Home Automation Domotica Forum Europe, Bwired Forum

In the autumn, a developer starts constructing my semi-one-roof. The design looks something like this.

No I'm thinking to do all the electricity my self, and get (a very) little discount on the price. Then I can do the electricity right in the first time with a nice domotica system

Now I've some questions to make a calculation how much time and money I need for the installation:
- Which hardware system for the basic modules is a good choice? (X10 two-way?)
- Which software system is a good start? (HomeSeer?)
- How much time will the hardware installation take?
- How much money will a basic installation cost?

Some wishes for the installation:
- Using a remote control for lighting/tv/audio
- Using my iPhone
- Maybe a touchscreen between the kitchen/living room?

I know these are very basic/general questions but I hope someone can give me an example of an installation which equals my house.

I have some experience with installation in vacation-homes with Xanura hardware/software, installing all the hardware and programming/configuring the software.

Welcome to Domoticaforum.

There are lot of different protocols X10 is one of the oldest.
Some others: Zwave, Zigbee, KNX, Nikobus and many others.
On this forum are the most populier ones Zwave and X10/A10

Software: Homeseer

Installation time: +/- 1 hour per device
Costs: +/- 75 euro per device
Software 500 euro
Server, Touch screen 750 Euro

Whatever system you are going to take, make sure that you also pull a UTP (network) cable to every room!
I'm sure that you are not going to regret it!

My advice is to pull an extra (or more) utp cable to every room. This extra cable with 8 wires will come in handy for connecting additional speakers, 1 wires appliances or what ever will come up in the future. And believe me it will.

Thank you all for the advise! I'll a least bring one UTP-cable to each room!

But about the X10 hardware is it getting old and is it better to use another protocol? I thought the X10 two-way is not so old..?
Are there any preferred brands to use..? (Lifetime ect)

With the Xanura-modules we had a lot of problems a the start, a lot of them broke by lightning..

I agree on the double UTP cable to each room. The 8 extra wires will come in handy.
I think it will be hard to find modules that are lightning proof...

Dont pull 2 wires to each room, instead place at least 2 empty tubes to each room. Let it come back centrally to 1 place (dont forgot that the meter closet might be to busy then to host all your stuff)
Think of a receiver which can do multizone sound/video, think of putting webcams in certain places, think of putting switches in similar situations.

And if you go for z-wave make sure to pull a blue cable towards it to (it needs it)

Also think about your meters, do you want to know water measuring too? if so, the standard ones usually dont come with a "flash" contact.

For touchscreens, think where you would place one and then put a pipe to that too.. If you close the gap but measure the location, you could "close" the hole and still do wallpaint/gravel/whatever on top of it and when you need it, just measure the location and punch a hole there. That way you want be sitting with a big tube coming out of the wall (i have one sticking out in the living room for some time now, basicly if you dont get around to it or are not satisfied with the current gadgets it just sits there ... ugly)

Do you want to control the thermostat? if so, a tube to it too.
Do you want to put sensors near the windows? if so, you could put a tube to that too if not use visonic or similar instead.

The thing that i could not make but in my opinion one of the cooler projects would be a receiver with ethernet interface to control it, but wihch has something like 3x Video OUT. You could actually have 1 blueray player, and switch the output to for instance the bedroom tv. Same for your media center etc etc.

Iphone works great with homeseer, and the ipad is even more nicer for a touchscreen on the wall for instance.. (although i rather walk around with it too..)

I've fitted my house with Xanura and Homeseer last year (new install) for several thousands of euros.

- The Xanura part is stable enough, but it is slow. Use a PMIX35 and an experienced friend to measure your network and improve the network
- The Homeseer part is fairly extendable, but stability is an issue. Especially when you use multiple plugins and external modules through RS-232 or USB. Also support on plugins is extremely low.
- My sensornetwork is wireless (mostly with RFXCOM). Depending on the amount of enforced concrete in the building you might encounter stability problems. Also, it's slow.

If I could re-spend my money I would go for fully wired KNX or some other wired system.
- reliable
- fast
- fast sensors available
- secure
- can be used with Homeseer, or use real KNX controllers (such as Gira Homeserver)

Try to think in scenarios:
Walk through a door and think about what you think should happen at that moment. Should the light turn on at dark? Make sure you use a fast sensor and actor, using my alarmsensors or X10 sensors in combination with Xanura modules, I'm halfway through the room before the light is on because of the delays. Experiment by walking into a dark room and have a friend turn on the light a full second later. If you don't mind the delay, I'd go for X10.

Start with the basics and grow in time:
- first sensors and actors
- then integration with other systems such as alarm or audio
- later on new systems such as door-, window- or curtain automation

My vision on touchscreens:
If you automate it you don't have to control it (most of the time). I have adjusted my touchscreens several times during the first period because my system was growing and changing over time. After spending many hours on the programming I stopped, I want the home automation to be almost finished before I start working on the touchscreens for intelligent interaction with the domotica. I will use my touchscreen to adjust schedules (lighting/alarm/thermostat), control deviations from the regular program (such as disable movement sensors when you have a party), visualise information (energy management, camera's, weather information, alerts). Controlling devices through my touchscreen will be low priority. You put your touchscreen in a central convenient spot, controlling devices is done mostly decentral (example: you don't turn on the toilet light on your central touchscreen but in the toilet).

Hope this helps you a bit.

Hmm.. I've read a lot on the internet the last weeks and I like to know who you would do in my situation.

On 19th of august the contracts (for my house) have to be signed. Till the 19th I have the choice if I do the electricity myself of let it do for me.. If I do it myself I pay €2000,- less (then I have to do electricity, walls and floor myself)..

How much will a complete installation for my house cost on material (wiring + modules + server), so except working hours and programming hours.
At the beginning I won't use an touchscreen, maybe later I'll buy an iPad or something..

I like a robust and fast system is it possible with X10/Z-Wave or is KNX from Gira a better option..?

I hope you all can give me some prices/examples

If necessary I can also publish the drawings of my semi-one-roof house overhere..

Cost of domotica installation for a normal home if you do it yourself
Zwave +/- 3000
Knx +/- 10000

Knx is a challenge to do it self and you will need lot of extra space for your installation

I think it will cost more then €2000,- when you need the make al electricity yourself. Start in the meter cabinet €500 euro, all the wires around the hole house. And don't forget the switch en power outlet. And al the time to make holes in the wall.

On the otherhand you can choose your own design etc.

But if the basic wiring is made for €2000,- I don't think it's expansive. Maybe you can make a deal, that before they start plastering, you can put your own wires in the wal.

for the emty tube part. Make sure there's a pull wire inside. This way it is a lost easier to get the cable's inside with a pullspring "trekveer" otherwise you are pretty sure you will have a surprise when you want to se the tube.