DroboShare

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:07 pm

its about time, this solves my question, which storage system should i take in the future. Now i can really throw my w2k3 server out the window.

The number one complaint about the Drobo is pretty obvious: getting the damn thing on your network without using a host computer. Well, consider that complaint sorted. Today Data Robotics is releasing a NAS upgrade for Drobo called the DroboShare, which will support:

* Gigabit Ethernet (yes!), static or dynamic IPs
* Auto-mounting SMB shares via Drobo Dashboard (supports SMB authentication)
* Dual USB 2.0 ports for two Drobos per DroboShare
* EXT3 file system support (officially!)
* Capacities up to 16TB (provided you feed it 4GB drives that won't be out until, say, 2010)
* And possibly our favorite: email alerts, should a drive happen to crash, for example

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **MindBender** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:34 pm

That's something new! Less than half a year ago Drobo stated on their website that Drobo does not support NAS functionality and that it never will. NAS functionality was not in line with their philosophy, they elaborated.

So I started looking for an alternative and I quickly found the Infrant ReadyNAS NV+. A very charming device with similar functionality. It offered Gigabit Ethernet, just like many of it's competitors but unfortunately it's performance doesn't exceed 100baseT, also just like it's competitors. Except for one: Thecus NAS devices do outperform the 100baseT limit. So I've got me a Thecus 5200Pro:

I have to admit; It doesn't look nearly a pretty as the drobo. But then again, I didn't buy it for it's cosmetic properties. It offers 5 SATA-II drive bays, an E-SATA connector and two USB-2.0 ports to add all the drives you want. It's got an Intel Celeron 1.5GHz inside with 1GiB of RAM and it consumes about 55 Watt of power in idle.
It runs Linux and the platform offers a framework to develop plugins such as a SubVersion server or even a BitTorrent client. I don't use any of these, because for me reliability is all that counts.

What I do use however is it's serial port: It supports a board variety of UPSes so it will gracefully shut down if it UPS reaches 25% of remaining power. (It can be configured to shut down immediately after power failure too, but I didn't want this to happen for short events)

In general I'm very happy with it. I've got two drives of 1TiB each installed in RAID1 configuration. I'm considering to add a third drive but I'm a bit concerned about their advice to back up all data before initiating a RAID migration. Where the h*ll am I supposed to back up that much data?! Reliability is it's reason of excistence!

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:56 pm

And just mainly the last thing you said is why i like the drobo. No hassle, just ram disk in there and your done. I dont want the hassle of backups. I do however like the linux part ofcourse, but how would you go about extending more space, so if you have raid5 if you inserted your next disk for instance. Then you put in disk nr 4.. will it grow, or do you have to redo the whole thing? On my list was also a ReadyNas NV+ since it offered growing too.. but now the drobo looks better. But expensive though, and i dont think it will go over 100mbit.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **MindBender** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:51 pm

Performance wise there's no competition. Where the DroboShare does 8MB/s and 6MB/s for read and write respectively, the Thecus does 30MB/s an 18MB/s. It's actually the only NAS on the market that justifies it's Gigabit NIC. It has a 5 port Gigabit switch on board too, just like a whole lot of other features you wouldn't use: A second Gigabit port beside the switch, so it can act as a router. Stick in a WiFi USB dongle and you've got yourself an accesspoint too. Nice, but I've got other equipment doing that job and doing it better.

I doubt if Drobo actually uses RAID technology. I like it because it allows nearly any driver configuration, wether it's symetric or not. But in practice I don't think you would use that feature a lot because you would probably use equal drives if you have to buy. And the Drobo is just a little too expensive to fill with drives you still had laying around.

One of the features I bought the Thecus 5200Pro for was the ability to have multiple RAID configurations at the same time. I figured I'd have a reliable RAID1 array and a performing RAID0 array that could be expanded to a RAID5 array. But in reality things are different; I might just as all expand my RAID1 configuration to a RAID5 configuration by adding one 1TiB drive: It would double the current capacity and still be redundant. After that, it's just a matter of adding additional drives and assigning them to the RAID5 array. What the Thecus cannot do and the Drobo can do is adding a 2TiB drive to the array later on. With the Tecus you would have to start a new array in this situation. And since it doesn't support a single disck (JBOD) next to an existing RAID array, you'd have to add two drives. This function may be available in the future, but for me it's not essential.

Drobo uses a proprietary format to put all available drive space on a single heap. That's charming, but the propietary format makes data recovery a real b*tch if anything goes wrong. We're not hoping for that of coarse, but nobody wants to be responsable for your data loss, not Thecus, neither Drobo. They will always recommend you to back up data. If anything goes wrong during RAID migration/expansion, I think you'll make a better chance of recovering data when it's just a Linux RAID array, instead of a proprietary Drobo array... And reliability is all that counts for me: Everything I have is on it and I wouldn't like to loose that.

The Drobe can expand even when it's full. You can simply replace the smallest drive by a bigger one. But you will not have all of the bigger drive's capacity available untill you replace another drive. The Thecus doens't offer anything like that, but it can expand RAID5 arrays dynamically. It even supports a hot stand-by drive. But then again, it doesn't live forever. I started with 2 drives of 1 TiB each. Soon I will add a third and the total capacitiy will be 2TiB with redundancy. If I add a 1TiB driver every year, it will be filled with drives in 3 years. I could still add a E-SATA drive and a USB drive, but I think the lifespan of this device will not be much longer than 5 years, so why bother...

Finally: The Thecus isn't very cheap either: I paid close to 900 Euro for mine, without drives. I haven't found any Dutch internet shop carrying the Drobo.

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:02 pm

http://www.wifisound.nl/catalog/drobo-p-285.html

for the drobo, no network yet.

But it is possible to have "a" raid combination with 2 the same drives, and then later on expand it with 3 other disks (1 by 1) if so, then what you say of the lifespan of the device is also through. I do have 1tb storage in raid now, and it does get full but mostly with crap. Although i like to store loads of crap

The thecus has come 100 euro's down , its now 800 euro's. Only thing that would be cool if it would run "sabnzbd" which i really need hehe.

I did see the performance specs too, and i must admit that also sounds nice. If you download a dvd or something you want it to do it quickly not take 25minutes to unzip it.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **MindBender** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:36 pm

With the Thecus it is most definitely possible to have a RAID array and add drives later to expand its volume. The only disadvantage(*) is that you need to use drives with (somewhat) identical capacities within an array. So you can start with two drives of 1TB each in RAID1, offering 1TB of storage, full redundancy and some performance benefits. Later you can add a 1TB drive and migrate to RAID5. You will then have 2TB of storage with full redundance. From there you can continue adding 1TB drives up untill 5 in total, offering 4TB of storage with full redundancy: Any drive may still fail without loss of data. You could even add a 6th drive using the E-SATA interface, but I'm not sure if you can add that one to your array.

But instead of adding a 4th drive to your RAID5 Array, you can also put in two drives of 2TB each to form a new RAID0 array and offer 4TB of storage without redundancy.

*) The Drobo doesn't need identical drives. That's a very charming concept, but unfortunately it doesn't work as you'd expect. Because it constantely needs to anticipate on you removing one of it's drives, it needs to distribute it's redudance among all of it's drives. So if you start with two 1TB drives, you have 1TB of storage, just like the Thecus RAID1 solution. If you add a third drive, Drobo states that you can add a differently sized drive, let's say a 2TB drive. But if you do, only 1TB of its 2TB will be available. The other half is 'reserved for future expansion'. That's no difference from the Thecus. It too will accept a 2TB drive in it's array, and it too will use it as a 1TB drive. The difference between the two kicks in if you add another 2TB drive. Then the unused half of the first drive will suddenly be used as well. But if you need to add two drives instead of one to used their full capacity, there's not much difference with the Thecus. Except that the Thecus needs you to form a second array for these new drives. In this case the Drobo will spread redundancy accross all four drives, while the Thecus arrays have to be configured as either RAID0 or RAID1. But the Theces has an extra drive bay and the E-SATA connection. I guess you can't have everything, at least not before Z-FS becomes a fact

That, and it's screaming performance, made me buy the Thecus. Drop me a personal message and I can give you my phone number if you need more information.

Post by **Snelvuur** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:51 pm

i like the idea of the thecus, since it has linux on it you can also do some other nice stuff. still have to wait a bit before i buy my storage device, i still have my 1tb raid-5.. and another 1tb of raid-1 here and there in some machines in total, my workstation is 1tb raid-0 so i still have plenty place to play. But thanks for the advice.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Digit** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:12 am

Well, call me old-fashioned, but i always like to have a real backup of my data. I've had enough experiences with customers in my daily work where suppport technicians came to rescue critical servers and didn't "understand" the RAID configuration, or had never even heard of real duplexing for that matter, and just f***ed up in their effort of rescueing critical data. That's not going to happen here. [:)]

So i'm thinking of building a server with twice the drives i really need and mirror nearly everything myself at times i feel the need for it. That way, I will be the only one being responsible for backup. And if i do lose data, i'm the only one to blame. Not some company or OS or device or whatever. Just me. And only this way it is endless.

Post by **Snelvuur** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:05 pm

my mail/post (scanned) are on my raid-1.. i have a copy on a server on the internet (in case of a fire) which is also raid-1. Maybe a bit overkill. but i really cant have those files gone.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Snelvuur** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:07 pm

http://www.qnap.com/PressRelease_detail.asp?pr_id=71

Taipei, Taiwan, January 2008 - The leading storage solution provider QNAP Systems, Inc. today unveils the new generation 4-bay, hot-swappable network-attached storage-TS-409 Pro Turbo NAS for business users. With high performance, enhanced reliability and expansibility, TS-409 Pro outstands other entry-level models by its powerful features including hot-swappable HDD design, RAID 0/ 1/ 5/ 6/ 5+spare disk redundancy, Online RAID Capacity Expansion, Online RAID Level Migration, and abundant backup and security functions. The HDD S.M.A.R.T. and complete log systems are supported to minimize the deployment cost and maintenance effort.

Those advanced RAID functions which were only for enterprise-grade applications in the past are now available on QNAP TS-409 Pro with more disaster-proof enhancements and simplified operation procedure. IT managers can easily set up the NAS as a centralized storage center with high-level data protection and flexible expansion capability. Advanced RAID 5 and RAID 6 are supported to maintain non-stop service of NAS even when one or two hard disks physically fail at the same time. The powerful yet user-friendly RAID management functions enable server manager to expand the storage capacity, or migrate the system to a higher RAID redundancy level without turning off the system. The HDD S.M.A.R.T. function provides complete hard drive's information, including temperature and health status, etc. to prevent potential physical drive failure. Encrypted FTP, SSL encrypted web-based access, SSH login, and encrypted remote replication features are supported to ensure secure data backup, access, and sharing. Moreover, a comprehensive log system with data access records, online user list, and email alerts helps server manager to control and manage the system easily. The Linux-embedded design and silent cooling fan ensures long-term and energy-saving operation, TS-409 Pro can be easily deployed anywhere even in a small office without server room.

According to Mr. Shawn Shu, Vice President of QNAP, "TS-409 Pro adopts the high performance 500MHz CPU and 256MB DDRII memory. The hot swap design and the advanced RAID are the dominant features of TS-409 Pro that are rarely provided by other entry-level NAS suppliers. The RAID 5 and RAID 6 support, Online RAID Level Migration and Capacity Expansion features are important breakthrough in NAS for business and SOHO users. QNAP has taken the lead in successfully implementing these features in TS-409 Pro to provide a truly reliable, flexible, and easy-to-use storage solution for business."

Secure and complete backup functions
TS-409 Pro provides various powerful backup options. Users can use the professional backup software NetBak Replicator to perform synchronized, instant, and schedule backup to copy the data of multiple Windows PC to NAS. The remote replication function can be used to back up the data of a NAS to another QNAP NAS remotely. Users can also select to copy the data of NAS to or from an external USB device using the synchronized, instant, or schedule backup features.

Multi-functional NAS for easy maintenance and data sharing
QNAP TS-409 Pro Turbo NAS is built-in with many powerful server functions, e.g. Windows AD authentication for easy user account setup and centralized data management; network storage, file server, encrypted FTP server, encrypted remote replication, printer server (supports 3 printer at maximum), UPS support, cross-platform operation, built-in PHP MySQL and SQLite web server.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **MindBender** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:22 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by snelvuur
 The leading storage solution provider QNAP Systems, Inc.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
In Taiwan everybody is the self proclaimed leader in their own branch of business; Trust me, I've been there, more than once. 
In my opinion there are just three options for serious storage:
1. Thecus N5200Pro - If you want sheer performance, many options and don't mind configuring it.
2. Infrant ReadyNAS NV+ - If you want hassle-free configuration.
3. Drobo - If your want to expand it endlessly.

Post by **Snelvuur** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:25 am

Only posting what i found, i still think your thecus is one of the better options aswell. Mainly for the performance too.

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **MindBender** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:35 am

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by snelvuur
 Only posting what i found, i still think your thecus is one of the better options aswell. Mainly for the performance too.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No worries, mate; Your posts are highly appreciated. I didn't mean to disencourage you. 
I did a lot of research before spending 2000 Euro on a storage system and I have seen them all. Above is just my short list. I'm sure new developments take place every day. But QNAP is boasting a bit too much about it's position in the market, which is a real turn-off for me. 
And if you're considering to buy one but aren't sure, you're always welcome to come by and try the performance and the look&feel of my NAS!

Post by **Snelvuur** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:42 am

hehe, i dont really care if they say "we are the best" everyone says that in their line of business, and even if their product might be the best at that moment, its mostly broken within a few weeks by somebody else. I'am a regular reader of engadget for instance and i filter out the domotica/interesting stuff for a post here. Saves some time for people that dont have it. (and it breaks my day at work)

// Erik (binkey.nl)

Post by **Snelvuur** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:43 pm

@mindbender: i see Thecus N5200BR(oustor) Pro. What do they mean with Oustor? do you know? its 50 euro's more expensive, i would think its a different color but i cant tell from some pages.

// Erik (binkey.nl)