App ideas / feature requests

[Sjig]

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So, what you could do is feeding the boiler contact of the Toon ketelmodule (which is a simple off/on relais, depending on the setpoint vs roomtermo) into another relais which is capable of doing 230v from a 24v source. The relais should have a nc/no contact. This nc/no connects to the cool/heat thermo input of the panasonic.
Now explaining how this will work:
If it is winter time you put the panasonic in heat mode (or auto mode, so it switches to heat itself). The Toon will enable the ketelmodule relais when the room is too cold. This will then enable the 230v relais which will switch on the heat request input of the panasonic (and switch off the cool input). If the room is warm enough, it will disable the internal relais and this will disable the 230v relais and switch off the heat request to the panasonic. It will switch on the cool request but the panasonic will ignore that as it is in 'heat' mode.
In the summer the logic works inversed. When the room is too hot the ketelmodule relais switches off, this turns on the 230v cool relais etc.

So you only need to find a correct relais and connect it properly.

Thanks for the clarification, this explains it all. Using a 24 V signal also frees up my 3x1,5^2 cable for possible future use. Thanks for your help! Also looking forward to future developments with Toon as well as HeishaMon .

[Sjig]

I think this relais should work (don't look at picture which is not the one) https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/finder-22-32 ... 17468.html

One more question. Is there a reason you specigfied the 24 V version? I measured the output (to CV-ketel) of the Toon, but is only makes or breaks contact. It does not supple a voltage. I noticed the power supply is 24 V. Is is possible to pass this on to the CV-ketel output via software?

Also I noticed that Phoenix has relays that use a lot less power (0.22 W vs Finders 2.2 W), and are a lot cheaper: elektramat.nl/phoenix-contact-2903370-p ... t-24dc-21/ .
Downside is that is has an expected lifetime of 1.000.000 cycles, where Finder has double that. I can imagine this increases the odds of the Phoenix breaking quicker.

[TheHogNL]

You need some voltage to switch the extra relais. In thermostats it is normal that you use 24v for signal and switching relais. Indeed, the contact is make/break. So the 24v will be feading the relais or not depending on the make/break state which will then switch the 230v side of the relais.

Not sure what you mean with passing the 24v supply from the toon software.

The phoenix contact relais seems to be ok at first glance. As long it has a low DC input voltage (24v) and capable for 230v side switching and a double (nc and no) output.

[Sjig]

You need some voltage to switch the extra relais. In thermostats it is normal that you use 24v for signal and switching relais. Indeed, the contact is make/break. So the 24v will be feading the relais or not depending on the make/break state which will then switch the 230v side of the relais.

Not sure what you mean with passing the 24v supply from the toon software.

The phoenix contact relais seems to be ok at first glance. As long it has a low DC input voltage (24v) and capable for 230v side switching and a double (nc and no) output.

What I meant is that the AAN/UIT control of the Toon doesn't give a voltage, it only closes/opens the output contact. I hoped it was possible to change the software so that it outputs 24 V when it's on and 0 V when it's off, since that would save me a power supply. Guess a simple Y-splitter on the Toon power supply should work fine as well.

[Sjig]

@TheHogNL I installed the Toon yesterday, and noticed today that it oscillates (NL: pendelt) when it gets around its setpoint temperature. Did this happen with you as well? Do you know of a way to solve this? My HP will wear out like this in no-time. Thanks in advance.

[TheHogNL]

So I had that to and finally came to the solution to add a smart relay on a microcontroller (esp8266) in between which added a delay.
There are some settings in the toon also to change the delay to be more heatpump friendly but that is still then 20 minutes periodes.

You would be better to have a setpoint high enough which with the set water setpoint will not be reached soon. Different to what you are used as a gas boiler.
So if you want a room temp of 21 degrees set the toon to 22 degrees and tune the heatpump so it will not reach the 22 very soon. So the 22 is only used for a high cutoff instead of a medium setpoint.

[Sjig]

Thanks for your response. I have a couple of Attiny85's laying around, so that would be an idea. Just keep the output pin HIGH as long as the input pin (from the Toon) hasn't been LOW for longer than x seconds. Do you know what the maximum off-time is in this semi-modulating state? heatingType in config_happ_thermstat.xml is on 3 if that's what you mean, that doesn't seem to help too much.

Tweaking the water temp like that would require me to set such a low temp that my heat pump would probably start oscillating by itself due to low heat transfer (old tyleen floor-heating with too small a heat exchanger and a large distance between in-floor piping, still have a lot of work to do). I'm afraid that won't work as intended. But for my case I very much like the idea of adding an extra microcontroller to manipulate the output of the Toon, thank you very much!

Still, I can't help thinking that a "Heat pump thermostat" app would make thing easier for newcomers, as well as more robust than the other options. An app with effectively 2 setpoints, "Heat up until [tempH]" and "Cool down until [tempC]". If roomtemp tempR < tempH, activate (Zwave) relay 1. If tempR > tempC, activate (Zwave) relay 2. Making it programmable (with a timer) would of course be better, but my programming skills probably don't go that far. I'll go tinker a bit with this idea.

[Sjig]

An app-idea for people who want to increase their PV self-consumption. I'm thinking of using your house as a thermal buffer. Instead of having a setpoint temperature on your thermostat, you could set a temperature range. For example, you're comfortable with 18°-23° C. If the temperature is below 18 °C, always heat. If the temp is below 23 °C and you're returning (over) x amount of power to the net, also heat. This way you can heat your house to a higher than normal temperature, and use the extra thermal energy to get you through the night comfortably, to hopefully do the same thing the next day.

There could be more triggers for using the thermal buffers. Today for example, people with an hourly-variable electricity rate get paid to use electricity, due to a surplus of PV in the country (Netherlands):

(Source: https://www.easyenergy.com/nl/energietarieven)
So you get paid to fill up your thermal buffer, and enjoy the heat of it in the evening and night. Would this be a useful app? Perhaps in the future, when netting (dutch: salderen) is not possible anymore.

[TheHogNL]

There is already an app almost 5 years now for the dynamic prices (viewtopic.php?t=11770)
It triggers domoticz on certain price levels.

Don't use toon as a automation device. Only for displaying and data gathering. So if you want to build some smart logic about self consumption I would advice you to do that in domoticz, home assistant or node red.

Exactly what I am doing with the spotenergy app. It triggers my domoticz which will then start certain devices if the price is low, just like yesterday (in it extremes). I received 10 euro's of energy pay back yesterday

[Sjig]

I'm familiar with the app, that gave me the idea .

I like the idea of a heating system that functions stand-alone (e.g. without WiFi or a NAS), because of the dependability. If my NAS or router were to cut out during a vacation and the heating stops, that could result in damage due to condensation. Also, I don't want to burden new owners with a complex system like that when I were to sell my house. Any particular reason why you shouldn't want to use the Toon for (simple) automations?

That's great! The energy transition definitely brings a lot of opportunity with it. We're on the brink of something big

[TheHogNL]

You can use the toon but it would be better then to use a script running on the toon instead of an app in qml on the toon.
But believe me, just use the systems which you have in place. How often does your wifi really fail? And will that be a big problem if your smart heating will not work then? Probably your wife or maybe if you have kids will be screaming to fix the wifi anyway

[Sjig]

That makes sense, since it would be quite to bit easier to edit the heating algorithm. I can't find out how scripts work. Is there a tutorial on that, like with qml?

Wifi practically never cuts out, but the only "automation" device I have is an old Windows NAS that I wouldn't trust to handle heating. Especially in the winter when condensation damage is a risk, for example when we're away for the weekend. Also, when we sell the house I'd like the heating system to still function as intended. Might be more of a feeling than a rational thing, I don't know. But if using the Toon doesn't work as intended, I can always change it

[hvxl]

I can't find out how scripts work. Is there a tutorial on that, like with qml?

The code in qml scripts is basically Javascript. There are plenty of Javascript tutorials online. I have attempted to describe a lot of toon specific qml information in the DevelopingToonApps.pdf document.

[oepi-loepi]

Another option to learn coding is reading the existing codes here..

https://github.com/orgs/ToonSoftwareCol ... positories

[Upgraded]

I am actually looking for an app that can schedule the brightness of the screen when awake.

I would like to have it bright at day time but dimmed in the evening.
Something like 10am-6pm at 80% and 6pm to 10am at 30%.
Sometimes when i tap my Toon to wake it up at night I am getting blinded as all the lights are off in the room.

Would something like that be possible?